Interesting Issue (Fixed)

"Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness" (long-voyager-2nd-edition)
12/18/2018 at 07:15 • Filed to: wrenching, Mopar, Voyager

Since I’ve been driving the van again, I’ve noticed I have a belt squeak. In searching for the squeak I’ve noticed my crank pulley wobbles. The wobble in the pulley is causing my belt to squeak since the belt rubs on the pulley as it wobbles. I can’t get a good video of it, but hopefully someone has an idea.

Looks like this when running:

Which has me thinking my HB is bad.

FIXED!!!!!!!

Got a new harmonic balancer last night. Pulled the old unit, which to my surprise was a simple single piece unit, I coulda sworn it was the 2 piece like the 3.0s ( sorry, tripped as I snapped the pic, too busy trying to get shit done to snap another ) :

Got the new one on:

Installed the belt and fired her up, wobble gone, belt squeak gone. Took a little over 30 mins to swap.

DISCUSSION (21)

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/17/2018 at 12:31

wibblywobblytimeywimey

i dont suppose its something as simple as tightening up the bolts holding the wotsit on?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > farscythe - makin da cawfee!
12/17/2018 at 12:33

Doubtful.

I ordered a new harmonic balancer, should be here today, so I’ll hopefully pull it apart tonight and have it fixed.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/17/2018 at 12:34

good luck

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > farscythe - makin da cawfee!
12/17/2018 at 12:35

Thanks.

It’s not too cold today, so hopefully that’s all it is. Tempted to take it to my friend’s shop and do it just in case, but I don’t really want to drive it anymore like this.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/17/2018 at 12:35

3.0, right?

Need to check the alternator idler and A/C idler first. Bad idler can break the crank pulley loose on these. If the pulley’s loose, replace the bad idler, re-torque the pulley, install, and re-align.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
12/17/2018 at 12:37

3.8L

All the idlers seem to be running perfect and were replaced when the motor went in about 15k ago.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/17/2018 at 12:38

that’s very bad. stop that and replace it before the crankshaft resonates itself to death and lunches your whole bottom end

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
12/17/2018 at 12:40

Mine isn’t that bad yet, but she is parked until the issue is resolved. Hopefully it’s just a bad harmonic balancer, seems the most common issue. If not, the crank is probably bent, so it’ll just run like that until it hatches anyway.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/17/2018 at 12:55

Ugh, 3.8, yeah. I swear to god the entire crank sprocket outward on those is made of pig iron and scrap rubber . You HAVE to use the puller. Probably just failed rubber but the fix is the same; gotta replace the whole damn damper.

nerd_racing > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
12/17/2018 at 12:59

If the rubber is dry cracked at all, I would replace it. I’d say get a Fluidampr, but we don’t offer one for the 3.8. Just the 3000GT motor.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > nerd_racing
12/17/2018 at 13:09

These things tore like nothing else. I’d be amazed if a one of them made it long enough to dry crack. Seriously - pig iron and scrap rubber.

Also, you guys need to make a harmonic for the 5.7. I REALLY do not like dealing with ATI.

thejustache > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/17/2018 at 13:27

I had the 2 piece crank pulley fail on my Outback last winter. Should have noticed when it started making a weird noise, but it was like -20 out at the time so I figured the car was just really cold. Then I smelled rubber and popped the hood to find a shredded A/C belt, a thrown alternator belt, and a crank pulley that was offset and ate partially into the timing belt cover .

Thankfully the harmonic bala ncer part of it on a Subaru was more for comfort than engine health. I replaced it with a 1 piece pulley and have had no issues since

SnowShark > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/17/2018 at 13:44

Doing the main seal as well, correct?

nerd_racing > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
12/17/2018 at 14:22

It is on our list of dampers to make. I’d buy a late model ram just to test it on our dyno if we made one. I’ll make sure to forward the request along though.

What problems are you having with ATI? General fitment and support?

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > nerd_racing
12/17/2018 at 14:55

Forget the Ram, get a Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7. Much nicer inside and the same driveline. ;) Hell, if the Jeep works out and you don’t mind waiting a few months, we can probably figure out a way for me to loan you guys the 5.7 Wingspan development motor while it’s set up to be instrumented.

As for problems with ATI, quality and support for sure . They’re the only folks that make an elastomer harmonic for the AMC Gen III . Well they just kept failing. Never could get a decent answer from support . Finally just gave up and went with a Romac SA, which has about 125k on it.

nerd_racing > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
12/17/2018 at 15:02

Do you guys measure torsional amplitudes? We use Rotec equipment for our validation testing. In this case the squeaky wheel gets the grease for new parts.

Urambo Tauro > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
12/17/2018 at 15:28

I think you’re on the right track. Not a lot of things that could make it wobble like that. Maybe it’s just a loose bolt, or maybe you’ll find your HB damaged just like the one in the video.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > nerd_racing
12/17/2018 at 15:32

I don’t have any equipment for that, and the SSJ’s too much of a unicorn to play around on, generally. So there was a whole lot of mathing and simulation and more math. (I was told there would be no math. They lied. So I made people who are better at it than me check my math. )

The Romac part has generally held up pretty well, but it wasn’t mathed and it’s never been tested to actual redline. Closest it’s come was a couple pops up to 7.5k when the bypass had to be re-tuned. (Normal operation has the motor electronically limited to 6.8k, but it’s internally balanced for 10k .) Best guess is that the ATI 3 bolt just couldn’t stand up to the additional pulley weight and the constant daily-driving.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > SnowShark
12/17/2018 at 16:07

Of course, no reason not to while it’s that far anyway.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > thejustache
12/17/2018 at 16:09

Oddly enough, the replacement is a one piece unit. Hopefully it still does it’s job or I may be looking for a 4.0L sooner than expected.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
12/17/2018 at 16:10

It is 24 years old with 130k, I suppose the rubber could be worn out at this point.